| On December 15th 1998, Toninho Horta was in Rio where he performed two shows at the Banco do Brasil (Bank of Brazil) Cultural Center. The next day, I spoke with Toninho, that conversation turned out to be a delightful chat. Toninho talked about his new projects, the music business, the Livrão da Música Brasileira (The Big Book of Brazilian Music) and also about his new CD "From Ton to Tom" (VideoArts) released at the end of 1998 (unfortunately for us only in Japan). Now here is Toninho Horta. | ||
From Ton to Tom  From Ton
to Tom
Produced by Toninho Horta |
MG -
TONINHO, YOU ARE A MUSICIAN OF INTERNATIONAL FAME WITH MANY RELEASES ABROAD, AND ALMOST NO
WORK AVAILABLE IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY. TONINHO - Yeah, as I was telling you... I am setting up a structure now, you see? Instead of waiting for somebody out of the blue, an investor in Brazil to show up... You see, I am always on the road. So everything concerning Brazil, that is, coming here to play, tour, and promote a CD, it is kind of a half accomplishment because I had nobody in charge of the media and so forth. All my works were being released abroad, and they never made their way down here. Only people like you, people with the same interests as yours, who surf the Net, friends that travel abroad and the handful of stores that import those CDs here in Brazil. So, in a way, I started to lose media attention until people got interested in working with me. |
Over the course of the last ten years, when I decided to move to New York, and in 1988 I signed with Polygram Records. Moving to the US to go on international tours. I would only come to Brazil between those tours, in fact, I have never had the time to release a project here, making my presence felt, or to do a series of shows, rehearsals and all that. I am now fifty years old, and beginning to piece together my career of 30 years. After promoting SERENADE, this is now the last show of the year here at the Bank of Brazil Cultural Center. Next year we will come back for more with a band and, mainly, in Brazil. In addition, I intend to release and promote DE TON PRÁ TOM (FROM TON TO TOM). |
MG - YOUR SECOND RELEASE CAME OUT IN 1980. YOUR CONTRACT WITH POLYGRAM BEGAN IN 1988. BETWEEN YOUR SECOND AND THIRD RELEASES DID YOU TRY TO RELEASE ANYTHING HERE IN BRAZIL? AND DID YOU NOT GET THE SUPPORT YOU WISHED FOR? TONINHO - No, no. I did not even try anything at all. TERRA DOS PÁSSAROS (1980, his first work) was released eight months before TONINHO HORTA (1980, his second work). You see, my label in Brazil Odeon wanted me to release an album because Nana Caymmi and Milton Nascimento had risen in the charts with Beijo Partido (Broken Kiss), then the label said: "We will sign Toninho for an album". I agreed to make a deal to record TONINHO HORTA, you know that one with the song "Aqui Ó"that featured Pat Metheny on guitar, with Lô Borges singing "Manuel, o Audaz" (Eternal Youth), and more. I wanted to release TERRA DOS PÁSSAROS so I made that a condition of the deal. I had already recorded it, and I had paid visits to various record companies, and they all said "This is an album that won’t sell much, it’s not a commercial album".Odeon accepted the deal to release both TONINHO HORTA and TERRA DOS PÁSSAROS. Then they did some distribution, and it was OK. We even had a glamorous cocktail party. However, it was only a two-year contract. With TONINHO HORTA we had a problem with the production, and the label cancelled my contract on the very month they released the record. The work was out in December of 1980, and on the same month, only one or two weeks later, they rescinded my contract. On the heels of a major release, what I mean to say here is that simultaneously I was releasing a project into the market, and they were giving me a pink slip. MG – SO, YOU ARE TELLING ME THAT YOUR SECOND ALBUM WAS NOT EVEN PROMOTED BY THE RECORD COMPANY? TONINHO - The record was not promoted at all. We went to the company, and asked for
some type of support to continue our work, nothing happened. It took enormous effort to
simply convince them to print posters displaying the album cover. |
| MG – BUT THAT ALBUM IS A LANDMARK FOR BRAZILIAN MUSIC. EVERYBODY KNOWS THE ALBUM WELL. |
| TONINHO -
That’s right. And people want it because the title is no longer in print either here
or abroad. (Note: This CD was originally released domestically in the U.S. by World
Pacific). I found it interesting that about a month ago, I received a call from Japan,
from a friend of a friend, who is the principal of a distribution business there. She
placed an order for 2,500 copies TONINHO HORTA for the Japanese market. It’s
incredible that I was promoting Odeon instead of them promoting me (laughs). So, you see
ODEON is going to export those CDs to the Japanese market, and they are not even currently
promoting this work, true or not? I am trying to get a license agreement from Odeon to
reissue this album on my own label. As to that interval of eight years between the
Odeon and Polygram releases, I traveled in ’81 to promote the first two albums. My
sister Gilda was the producer of that tour.We inaugurated the Teatro Nacional (National
Theater) in Brasília (Brazil’s national capital). That was the first performance of popular music to take place at that theater. |
We received a
wonderful review of the show with the Orquestra Fantasma (Toninho’s band) by Correio
Brasiliense (a newspaper from Brasília). After Brasília, we toured São Paulo, Rio and
Belo Horizonte. We toured the main venues with little support from the record company,
well, we did it any way. The next year, I went to the U.S. and ended up staying in New York for a year and a half. During that time I attended The Julliard School of Music. My girlfriend followed me, we were in love... and I had an electric guitar here, sometime later Chiquinho Amaral from Skank (a Brazilian group) bought it from me, and I was able to buy a ticket for my sweetheart, who then joined me in the the States.Upon returning to Brazil at the end of ’83, we were married. We moved to Belo Horizonte where we had two wondereful children, Manuel and Luisa. In 1986, three years later, I wanted to record again. Then I inquired here and there, and noticed that it was going to be an uphill battle for me. |
The Brazilian pop scene was starting to make it big with names like Blitz and Lulu Santos. Through my experiences in America for almost two years, I began to think about musicians who really want it to make music the right way. Musicians concerned about having good instruments, scores, and access to information, good schools that teach improvisation, orchestration etc. I was feeling like a musician with prestige, after having enjoyed international recognition as I had recorded with Milton Nascimento in 1976 in Los Angeles (on the Milton album on A&M) when I met Herbie Hancock, Wayne Shorter and others of the same caliber. In addition, Hugo Fattoruso, who later came and recorded on TERRA DOS PÁSSAROS with me at the same Shangri-la Studio in Malibu, California, where we had previously recorded together with Milton Nascimento. It was during that time that I noticed people were really appreciating the music we were making. Wayne is a great friend of mine, and in the States there was a huge opportunity for me. Even though I was not currently recording my own albums, I was recording with other Brazilian artists such as Maria Bethânia. |
MG – WAS IT THEN THAT THE IDEA OF THE INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC CLINIC CAME UP?
TONINHO - Well, after considering all that was going on, I said : "Well, what I would like to do is a workshop". The idea came up one day when I was with a friend of mine at a bar, guitar player Gilvan de Oliveira, a great musician and composer from Minas Gerais (Toninho’s home state), and I made the observation: " Everydody’s playing the American Real Book (a songbook of American music standards). I am going to make one of Brazilian music. " Gilvan replied by saying "That’s it! But one has to make something even bigger, an event, a clinic and everything else." So I left with the idea in my mind, he told me he would help me with that project. I was the creator and organizer, in a nutshell, the mentor of the clinic. I hired third parties, and some real professionals, and together with the Universidade de Ouro Preto (University of Ouro Preto located in Minas Gerais) we made the event a reality, an event that lasted twenty days with music classes and shows, all that material was recorded and I have it. The fact that I did not record during those eight years was because I wanted to do something to help the future generations of musicians. I started to concentrate more on academics, attempting to gather my experience and knowledge to pass along to the younger ones, while trying to improve the quality of musicians in Brazil. This is also the reason why I teach workshops all over the world. In 1987 I got a call from the U.S. from some people who were trying to sign me with Polygram because people were starting to get to know me there. So that contract was not even something I fought for. They recognized my work as a musician, and they sought after me.
MG - WHAT ABOUT THOSE YEARS THAT YOU STAYED IN THE U.S. BETWEEN ’82 AND ’83, WHAT HAPPENED BESIDES THE FACT THAT YOU WERE STUDYING MUSIC? I KNOW THAT YOU PLAYED WITH THE LIKES OF DANNY GOTTLIEB AND MARK EGAN…
TONINHO - That’s exactly what happened. I did several gigs with Mark Egan, Onaje Olan Gumbs, Manolo Badrena, Claudio Roditi, and so forth. Once we played at a bar called Amazonas. It was me, Claudio Roditi and Paulinho Jobim. We inaugurated it. Those who went there were really super cool people such as Stan Getz, conductor Gil Evans, Eumir Deodato, Astrud Gilberto, they all went there to see us. Antonio Carlos Jobim was there as well.That was a difficult period of time. People knew me but I was just making my debut in the business. When I moved to New York in 1988, I signed with Polygram International, the whole picture had changed. I had a contract with Polygram, a booking agent, a complete infrastructure to stay there, working legally, and to push my projects forward. But the time I stayed in Brazil I never stopped composing, and always believed in my music. I am that type of person that never gives up, and am very bold. I always tried to make music, but didn’t want my music to sound the same, something innovative. This is the reason why I do not compose much but each and every song I write is a totally different experience to the listener, and that means quite a lot. Today I continue to resist what the market wants, and this attitude has given me a privileged spot worldwide with people that follow my work. There is, in a way, a Toninho Horta Brazilian school of playing the guitar and of writing music.
| MG - WHAT YOU ARE SAYING REMINDS ME OF AN ARTICLE IN THE AMERICAN GUITAR PLAYER MAGAZINE THAT HAS CALLED YOU THE AMBASSADOR OF THE BRAZILIAN RHYTHM. ONE CAN SEE IT LIKE THAT, RIGHT? TONINHO - Yeah, I guess so but it’s up to you Maurício to analyze all that, right, Maurício? (laughs) |
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MG - IT’S OBVIOUS THAT WE ALL RECOGNIZE THE ABOVE STATEMENT. HOWEVER, I WANT TO KNOW IF YOU TEND TO THIS IMAGE OF BEING A BRAZILIAN GUITARIST EXPORTED THE WORLD OVER?
TONINHO - I do, but I also think that there are other guitar players that play even more in the Brazilian way: the late Raphael Rabello, Guinga himself, and I am happy to say that Guinga went to my show yesterday at the CCBB, and sat in as a guest artist. There are many great musicians in Brazil. I think what I do is exactly what I told you before. I am kind of a worker, sowing things, always believing, and even with all the jazz influence I have, with all the sophistication of harmonies I’ve got, I still make a point out of being Brazilian.The rhythmic roots of all my music are Brazilian, and yet I try to combine those roots, my roots, with the American influence I absorb from abroad. Sometimes labels will demand that one adapts to the American standard, otherwise it may not be successful. What I mean, is that if it’s too Brazilian for a certain market, you can’t achieve the sales they want and so forth.